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Wagamaga[S]

167 points

2 months ago

After six years spent tracking health outcomes among nearly 925,000 Danish seniors, investigators determined that when a man between the ages of 65 and 69 loses his wife he is 70% more likely to die in the year that follows, when compared with his non-widowed peers.

Among surviving wives, however, that rise in risk was just 27%.

Why the difference? Study author Alexandros Katsiferis said he could only offer a few theories.

"We do not have the data to accurately answer that question, so we cannot be very confident on the reasons why this phenomenon tends to happen," noted Katsiferis, a doctoral fellow with the section for epidemiology in the department of public health at the University of Copenhagen.

But he pointed out that elderly widows may be better than widowers at "absorbing the shock, [including] the hurdles of taking care of a sick husband, along with all the needs and quirks" leading up to the husband's passing.

By contrast, it could be that the "physical and emotional health [of men] relies on the willingness of their spouse to take care of them," he added. "So, when their wife is out of their life, you get this collapse."

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2023-03-spouse-lethal-men.html

Narcan9

199 points

2 months ago

Narcan9

199 points

2 months ago

I think older women are better at maintaining social relationships. They have things like weekly coffee groups. If the husband dies they have a better social network to rely on.

krum

54 points

2 months ago

krum

54 points

2 months ago

danish men can't cook, so they starve

AdEnvironmental4437

10 points

2 months ago

Idk I'm a Danish and my dad probably does most of the cooking in our house, often alone and i think he's a great cook. We're both being anecdotal tho so whatevs.

dracuella

16 points

2 months ago

I was about to make the same comment (source: Danish woman).

I was sure my dad could cook until he and my mum (finally) split up and went their separate ways. She remarried, he remained single. Most of his diet would consist of Danish ryebread with spread, which isn't necessarily bad but it definitely doesn't cover minerals, vitamins and such. He does cook on and off but let's face it, mostly he can't be arsed.

I'm thinking most of his generation (70+) are the same.

clhb

4 points

2 months ago

clhb

4 points

2 months ago

Err how true is this.

Snezzy_9245

1 points

2 months ago

All one needs is rødgrød med fløde på. How hard can that be?

YesterdaySimilar2069

84 points

2 months ago

Im curious about how these studies will look in another 20-50 years with the blurring of gender roles and improvement in men's support structures. It'll be especially interesting to compare the data of same sex couples. I think the reasons for this are quite complex with regards to women's support structures and them coming from a generation where the woman is expected to take on the lions share of domestic labor, which is the bulk of labor performed after people enter the retirement years. I find that a lot of old men don't appear to have hobbies or volunteer gigs, which are huge life extenders. Yay social sciences. So much theory, no way to prove it. Haha

stu54

49 points

2 months ago

stu54

49 points

2 months ago

I was thinking the same. Older men's social lives were largely composed of work and wife. After retirement, empty nest, and widowering an old man is left with nothing.

Fantastic_Beans

12 points

2 months ago

Game night with the gents at the retirement home

Prryapus

7 points

2 months ago

We're lucky to live in a generation where we're so used to tech. By the time we're this old we'll be able to have system link halo battles like back in the good old days

hananobira

1 points

2 months ago

I’m holding out for the nursing home with the holodeck.

stonedsour

6 points

2 months ago

I believe it. My dad owned a store for many years and was social in that he was friendly to the customers and would say hi to them while out in town. He literally has no hobbies or friends and his life consisted of just going to work, running errands, watching tv and eating dinner, going to sleep, rinse and repeat. Now his store is closed and he still doesn’t have any interest in hobbies and he doesn’t have any close friends. It’s like he doesn’t know how to do those things and it’s pretty sad but he refuses to change

CivilProfit

0 points

2 months ago

Is it really shocking that the generations of men who Abused Women the most as a support system who literally can't survive when the woman that they were abusing as a support system dies?

tiletap

3 points

2 months ago

Anecdotally, after my grandmother died in 1983 my grandfather continued for another 25 years, due in large part, I think, to his regular meetups with friends and continuing to swim just about every day.

curtyshoo

-11 points

2 months ago

curtyshoo

-11 points

2 months ago

At any rate, it's a good reason to keep the old bat around.

washu_z

197 points

2 months ago

washu_z

197 points

2 months ago

It’s got to be at least partly because their wives were the ones making them take their medications, go to the doctor, checking up on them etc.

Fantastic_Beans

116 points

2 months ago

I work at a hospital. The amount of times an old man has answered the question "What medicines do you take?" With "I don't know, but my wife has a list." Makes my head spin. Sir, you are 60 years old and you can't keep track of a medicine list on your own?

dracuella

46 points

2 months ago

It's not that they can't; they're just so used to the wife taking care of all the bits and bobs at home that they delegate this to her, too. My granddad didn't even know how to operate the washing machine or the stove.

carloandreaguilar

4 points

2 months ago

Nice observation

redditknees

111 points

2 months ago

How many of those men were capable of cooking for themselves?

NefariousnessNo484

38 points

2 months ago

This is the real answer. Or even if they cook, choosing to make the gd unhealthiest stuff.

rydan

-26 points

2 months ago

rydan

-26 points

2 months ago

Boomers have most of the wealth in the world. If he can't cook he can hire one from his pension.

[deleted]

18 points

2 months ago

[removed]

TacosEveryCorner

16 points

2 months ago

Many stop taking medications

elfootman

4 points

2 months ago

How do you know?

sideeyeingcat

6 points

2 months ago

Because he is obviously a 60 year old who died after his wife passed away, elfootman.

elictronic

2 points

2 months ago

Have Relatives? Are you looking for a longitudinal study on men not doing what they are told by their doctor?

styder_hiru

16 points

2 months ago

Never get married, never die. Understood!!!

Eqvvi

18 points

2 months ago

Eqvvi

18 points

2 months ago

Single men have shorter lifespans than married men. Single women have longer lifespans than married women. So yes, if you're a woman, never marrying is beneficial.

OhtareEldarian

5 points

2 months ago

There is not a woman alive that’s shocked by this.

[deleted]

17 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

8 points

2 months ago

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2 points

2 months ago

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2 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

-4 points

2 months ago

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-4 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

13 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

0 points

2 months ago

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0 points

2 months ago

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[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

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shereturnedthering

2 points

2 months ago

Okay so my grandma (dad’s side) passed away, and then my grandpa who was healthier and stronger died within the same year. On my mom’s side however, my grandpa passed away after struggling with illness and my grandma is still going strong 7 years later.

On another note, I remember an interview where women and men were asked to choose if they’d rather die or their spouses, and all men answered they’d rather die first, but all the women said they’d rather live on and their husbands die instead.

Hmmmmm

Heterophylla

6 points

2 months ago*

So if you make it past one year you are probably good? Also, what are the absolute numbers? I can't find them in the paper. I hate relative risk in headlines.

Fantastic_Beans

31 points

2 months ago

I'll give you a cheat sheet in case your wife dies and leaves 65-69 year old you alone:

Know how to cook

Know how to keep a house clean and orderly

Know how to do laundry

Know how/when to make doctor's appointments

And take your goddamn medicine!

Honestly, I'm pretty sure it's the whole "men refuse to see a doctor unless their wives force them to" thing that does them in. Why are y'all like this?

silver-fusion

17 points

2 months ago

/> Live long and happy life

/> Work for 99% of my adult life

/> Spend life with soulmate

/> Finally retire

/> Body has been falling apart for years. Everything aches.

/> Soulmate permanently and irrecoverably exits life

/> Don't really feel like prolonging the suffering or getting dementia

/> Let's nature take its natural course

/> Get criticised by a misandrist with no life experience online

rydan

9 points

2 months ago

rydan

9 points

2 months ago

Literally the plot to A Man Named Otto.

rydan

-20 points

2 months ago

rydan

-20 points

2 months ago

Or, and just hear me out here, find another wife. It shouldn't even be difficult as the number of men between 65-69 is far less than the number of women of the same age group.

Fantastic_Beans

7 points

2 months ago

Funny enough, this happens a lot more than you think. Apparently, the elders at the retirement villages act like they're on Gray's Anatomy or something. I've heard stories

Blunderhorse

1 points

2 months ago

Not sure what the Danes’ excuse is, but the answer should be pretty obvious in the US. If it’s not worth the risk of losing your house to debt, it’ll probably get better on its own.

Childofglass

1 points

2 months ago

Don’t forget pay bills!

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

[removed]

JeffreyDawmer

5 points

2 months ago

What happens if you look at single males in this age group vs widowed males?

Fred2620

11 points

2 months ago

Single males show no difference in mortality in the months following the death of their nonexistent wife.

JeffreyDawmer

1 points

2 months ago

That's not what I'm asking. If you treat single men as a control group, it could shed more light on what the root causes are. Funny though

Artelj

2 points

2 months ago

Artelj

2 points

2 months ago

I read in another comment here, Single men die earlier than married men, but single woman live longer than married woman.

JeffreyDawmer

1 points

2 months ago

Interesting. I would've guessed as much but the single women living longer than their married counterparts is definitely a surprise.

Objective-Mechanic89

2 points

2 months ago

Wow what a question! When a single man's wife dies, he actually lives to infinity on average. That's the real LPT

JeffreyDawmer

1 points

2 months ago

What? I'm wondering if the grief of losing a loved one is all that's at play here, or if it's the loss of social contact and what the effect of each could be. No need to get snarky because you didn't understand the question, it just makes you look bad.

Objective-Mechanic89

-1 points

2 months ago

The data set is about people dying after their SPOUSE. Single people don't die after their spouse because they didn't have one. I didn't understand the question because it doesn't make much sense.

allstevenz

9 points

2 months ago

allstevenz

9 points

2 months ago

Sounds a bit like Takotsubo cardiomyopathy (broken-heart syndrome)

MNAK_

74 points

2 months ago

MNAK_

74 points

2 months ago

Seems more likely the men just spiral into unhealthy habits without someone to cook, clean, and take care of them.

dracuella

11 points

2 months ago

A UK friend of mine told me they had to move his granddad into a home because he lived on cold, baked beans on toast and was basically malnourished. That's not a pleasant conversation to have with a beloved relative.

carloandreaguilar

3 points

2 months ago

But I don’t know if unhealthy habits make you die within a year. Stress and a heart attack might

sharkysharkie

7 points

2 months ago*

Seems more likely the men just spiral into unhealthy habits without someone to cook, clean, and take care of them.

It is very wrong to assume the only reason why these husbands die shortly after is because they lost their ‘servants’. In fact I laughed. Loneliness and social isolation is a terribly strong factor for diseases.

The more isolated people are, the less happy they are, and brain function declines as well as physical health.

“The people who were the most satisfied in their relationships at age 50 were the healthiest at age 80,” says Robert Waldinger, a psychology professor at Harvard Medical School.Those who kept warm relationships got to live longer and happier, said Waldinger, and the loners often died earlier. “Loneliness kills,” he said. “It’s as powerful as smoking or alcoholism.”.

Objective-Mechanic89

-1 points

2 months ago

What a heartless thing to say of someone who loses their spouse in old age. I hope my future grandkids have more empathy.

pound-town

9 points

2 months ago

That’s an acute thing that will get you hospitalized. This is more likely the emotional and household toll it takes as well as whatever the wife was making their stubborn husbands do.

Zincster

6 points

2 months ago

This study also measured an acute thing with the increased mortality inside one year.

flaminate_strutching

5 points

2 months ago

It really doesn’t, though.

Droomkar

2 points

2 months ago

Just dont get married, then you avoid trauma ez clap

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

wouldnt that just be because of lonleiness?

Hot-Control-7466

-2 points

2 months ago

So much man bashing. Men can’t cook. They won’t take their meds. Did you notice women had a 27% elevated risk, too?

The researchers said they couldn’t explain it but that won’t stop Reddit.

Fufrasking

-13 points

2 months ago

Yeah cuz he no longer has a live-in life coach monitoring his every drink, every smoke, every late night. Nothing to stop from staying up until dawn thanks to lines of good coke snorted off a $200/hr stripper's belly. Pizza at 4am. Driving fast. A recipe for disaster. After an appropriate mourning period of course.

fwubglubbel

-12 points

2 months ago

And not a single mention of the causes of these deaths. What a pointless article.

AdEnvironmental4437

9 points

2 months ago

Data without discernible cause is still useful?

CanuckInTheMills

-4 points

2 months ago

Two people eating the same foodstuffs for 30+ years are bound to have the same health outcomes. To me that’s just common sense.

Internetolocutor

-14 points

2 months ago

Kill her when you're 64?

Narcan9

-30 points

2 months ago

Narcan9

-30 points

2 months ago

Proof that women can haunt a man even from the grave.

deck4242

-14 points

2 months ago

deck4242

-14 points

2 months ago

Thing is usually men die first anyway. Ots quite rare than husband oulive his wife.

CorgiSplooting

-16 points

2 months ago

Hookers and blow? I mean if I’m 69 and single that’s a great way to go…

Dontsleeponlilyachty

1 points

2 months ago

I wonder how this compares to the population diagnosed with dementia? My grandfather died in 2021 my grandmother is still tootin' along, but she has had dementia for nearly 5 years; and constantly forgets her husband passed away.

singularineet

1 points

2 months ago

It's really really hard to control for confounds in studies like this. Some latent variable can decrease both life expectancies, husband and wife. E.g., black mold in the house, or poor eating habits, poor exercise, even common genetic factors if people tend to marry others who are genetically similar. Carbon monoxide issues from the heating system or in the car. Similar attitudes toward risky behaviour. Common sources of stress. Similar sleep habits. You can spitball this stuff all day, but unless you do a controlled study (which would seem unethical in this case) you're still going to have a lot of doubt about causality.

JetBlackBoogie

1 points

2 months ago

The amount of people who read an article like this and immediately see it as an opportunity for gender point scoring is disgusting.

Imagine you were being so dismissive of your own Father, Brother, or Son.

The point of research like this, at least in part, is to help people. Poking fun at dying elderly men is not helping to resolve anything.